New Kings James Bible-
Matthew 16:18 "And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it"
Let us start with the meanings behind these words. Peter or petros, means little stone or pebble. Rock or petra, means big rock or huge boulder.
Next, lets take a look at scripture.
Peter calls Christ the rock.
1 Corinthians 10:4 "For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them and that Rock was Christ".
It is a very popular notion that Peter was made head of the church. But according to scripture, that is not true. While the Apostles continued the ministry after His death, Christ is always the head.
Ephesians 2:20",members of the household of God, having been built on the
foundation of the apostles and prophets with Jesus Christ Himself as the chief cornerstone"
Ephesians 4:15 "Speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him, who is the Head- Christ."
Ephesians 5:23" For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is the head of the Church; and the Savior of the body"
Colossians 1:18 "And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn of the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence".
Another point to look at in this verse (Matthew 16:18) is that Christ did not tell Peter that He was making him the head of the church or anything else.
In Catholicism, Peter is considered to be the first pope. Also, the pope is said to be infallible in all matters of faith.
If this were to be true, why was Peter rebuked sevreal times? Christ Himself had to rebuke Peter, which is recorded right after this verse.
Matthew 16:21-23" 21 From that time Jesus began to show to His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised the third day.
22 Then Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, “Far be it from You, Lord; this shall not happen to You!”
23 But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.”
Also, Paul corrects Peter as well in Galatians.
Galatians 2:11-14 "11 Now when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed; 12 for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision. 13 And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy.
14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, “If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews?"
How could Peter have been a pope if he had been fallible in matters of faith?
A few more points to consider on the subject.....
Look at the working in the verse in question.
"YOU are Peter and upon THIS rock".
The last major point that I would like to make is the meaning behind this section of scripture. It is the confession of Peter of who He said Jesus was. Christ was asking Peter who people said He was. He asked Peter specifically who HE thought He was, and He answered correctly saying "You are the Christ, Son of the Living God".
1 John 4:15 says " Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwells with Him and he with God"
I hope that this has at least made you think and perhaps, research this subject on your own. Far too often, we go by what we are told and never make sure that what we are being taught is correct. I urge you to do this. In fact, we are told to make sure that what we are being taught is true. We are taught in scripture to know what scripture says.
I pray that God is with you all and God Bless~
In Him Alone,
Hope
Friday, March 27, 2009
The Duke
A friend from YouTube will be responding here from questions that I asked him and points that I made. The example used in this portion of the debate is the Eucharist and the Last Supper.
For my references, I will only use Catholic sources such as the Catechsim and the New King James Version Bible.
I was asked: So MrsM, do you accept that Jesus (God) said to men that they could bind things on Earth and those things are bound in Heaven? If something is bound in Heaven can it be fallible?
Matt 16:18-19 and Matt 18:18
I responded: If it is something that goes against scripture, then it is not valid.
What happens if the 'whatsoever' was against something in scripture? For example, the 'continuing' sacrifice of Christ even though when He died, He said "It is finished".
Christ did say it was His flesh, I am not disagreeing with you. What Christ meant and we see it in further teachings, is that Christ is the Bread of life. We have to have food and drink to survive, correct? So with Christ saying it was real food and real drink, He meant that we need Him to live, not in this life but the next. Why do you think Christ called Himself 'bread'? In John 6 Jesus is referred to as " the Bread from Heaven".
John 6:33 "For the bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.
John 6:35 "I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.
John 6:50-51 "50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.
Do you see the symbolism that Jesus used in this teaching? His flesh was represented by the bread, flesh that would be broken. It is not a literal flesh, as cannibalism is condemned in scripture.
Christ says to do this in remembrance (Luke 22:18-20 and others) It was for remembering what Christ did, proclaiming His death. Not a renewing sacrifice of Christ.
Christ said "It is finished" and that there would be no more offerings. John 19:30 and Hebrews 10:11 and 18.
From New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia, the Eucharist is the on-going sacrifice of Christ. That idea is echoed in the catechsim.
1368 The Eucharist is also the sacrifice of the Church. Christ's sacrifice present on the altar makes it possible for all generations of Christians to be united with his offering.
1436 It is made present the sacrifice of Christ which has reconciled us with God.It is a remedy to free us from our daily faults and to preserve us from mortal sins."
1360 The Eucharist is a sacrifice of thanksgiving
1366 The Eucharist is thus a sacrifice because it re-presents (makes present) the sacrifice of the cross (This one continues to say it is a memorial but that does not consist with the rest of the catechsim)
1414 As sacrifice, the Eucharist is also offered in reparation for the sins of the living and the dead and to obtain spiritual or temporal benefits from God.
I will stop here, I feel that I have given enough from the catechism.(http://ccc.scborromeo.org.master.com/texis/master/search/?sufs=0&q=eucharist+sacrifice&xsubmit=Search&s=SS)
Now I will use the other source that I spoke of earlier.
We first must look at what communion/the Last Supper is.
Luke 22:17-10 "17 Then He took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this and divide it among yourselves; 18 for I say to you,[b] I will not drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes.
19 And He took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.
20 Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you. "
I Corinthians 11:23-26 "23 For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you: that the Lord Jesus on the same night in which He was betrayed took bread; 24 and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, Take, eat;[b] this is My body which is broken[c] for you; do this in remembrance of Me. 25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.
26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lords death till He comes."
Christ teaches here that it is a remembrance of the blood and body that was to be shed and broken. Christ does not teach us that it is an offering of sin or that by partaking in it, we are forgiven of sin. On the contrary, we are to examine ourselves before we partake in it.
I Corinthians 11:27-29 "Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood[d] of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner[e] eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lords[f] body"
Let's take a quick look at John 6. Verses 22-40 is Christ speaking about the Bread from Heaven and how He is the bread from Heaven. Verse 35 "I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst."
John 6: 54-58 Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For My flesh is food indeed,[h] and My blood is drink indeed. 56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me. 58 This is the bread which came down from heaven—not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.
What must we do to have eternal life? Salvation. And where does salvation come from? Jesus Christ.
There is a saying from the catechism that I would like to bring up.
1414 As sacrifice, the Eucharist is also offered in reparation for the sins of the living and the dead and to obtain spiritual or temporal benefits from God.
First let me note that we are told in Psalms 49 that we cannot redeem our brother nor pay a ransom for him. Second, this is very clearly talking about a sin offering. "Offered in reparation of the sins'.
John 19:30
So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, It is finished! And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.
Hebrews 10:18
Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.
Hebrews 10:11 "11 And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins.
We are to partake in remembrance, not trying to have our sins forgiven, or to try to forgive the sins of someone else, or to try to receive benefits. It is for the purposes of remembrance and to proclaim Jesus' death.
For my references, I will only use Catholic sources such as the Catechsim and the New King James Version Bible.
I was asked: So MrsM, do you accept that Jesus (God) said to men that they could bind things on Earth and those things are bound in Heaven? If something is bound in Heaven can it be fallible?
Matt 16:18-19 and Matt 18:18
I responded: If it is something that goes against scripture, then it is not valid.
What happens if the 'whatsoever' was against something in scripture? For example, the 'continuing' sacrifice of Christ even though when He died, He said "It is finished".
Christ did say it was His flesh, I am not disagreeing with you. What Christ meant and we see it in further teachings, is that Christ is the Bread of life. We have to have food and drink to survive, correct? So with Christ saying it was real food and real drink, He meant that we need Him to live, not in this life but the next. Why do you think Christ called Himself 'bread'? In John 6 Jesus is referred to as " the Bread from Heaven".
John 6:33 "For the bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.
John 6:35 "I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.
John 6:50-51 "50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.
Do you see the symbolism that Jesus used in this teaching? His flesh was represented by the bread, flesh that would be broken. It is not a literal flesh, as cannibalism is condemned in scripture.
Christ says to do this in remembrance (Luke 22:18-20 and others) It was for remembering what Christ did, proclaiming His death. Not a renewing sacrifice of Christ.
Christ said "It is finished" and that there would be no more offerings. John 19:30 and Hebrews 10:11 and 18.
From New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia, the Eucharist is the on-going sacrifice of Christ. That idea is echoed in the catechsim.
1368 The Eucharist is also the sacrifice of the Church. Christ's sacrifice present on the altar makes it possible for all generations of Christians to be united with his offering.
1436 It is made present the sacrifice of Christ which has reconciled us with God.It is a remedy to free us from our daily faults and to preserve us from mortal sins."
1360 The Eucharist is a sacrifice of thanksgiving
1366 The Eucharist is thus a sacrifice because it re-presents (makes present) the sacrifice of the cross (This one continues to say it is a memorial but that does not consist with the rest of the catechsim)
1414 As sacrifice, the Eucharist is also offered in reparation for the sins of the living and the dead and to obtain spiritual or temporal benefits from God.
I will stop here, I feel that I have given enough from the catechism.(http://ccc.scborromeo.org.master.com/texis/master/search/?sufs=0&q=eucharist+sacrifice&xsubmit=Search&s=SS)
Now I will use the other source that I spoke of earlier.
We first must look at what communion/the Last Supper is.
Luke 22:17-10 "17 Then He took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this and divide it among yourselves; 18 for I say to you,[b] I will not drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes.
19 And He took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.
20 Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you. "
I Corinthians 11:23-26 "23 For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you: that the Lord Jesus on the same night in which He was betrayed took bread; 24 and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, Take, eat;[b] this is My body which is broken[c] for you; do this in remembrance of Me. 25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.
26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lords death till He comes."
Christ teaches here that it is a remembrance of the blood and body that was to be shed and broken. Christ does not teach us that it is an offering of sin or that by partaking in it, we are forgiven of sin. On the contrary, we are to examine ourselves before we partake in it.
I Corinthians 11:27-29 "Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood[d] of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner[e] eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lords[f] body"
Let's take a quick look at John 6. Verses 22-40 is Christ speaking about the Bread from Heaven and how He is the bread from Heaven. Verse 35 "I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst."
John 6: 54-58 Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For My flesh is food indeed,[h] and My blood is drink indeed. 56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me. 58 This is the bread which came down from heaven—not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.
What must we do to have eternal life? Salvation. And where does salvation come from? Jesus Christ.
There is a saying from the catechism that I would like to bring up.
1414 As sacrifice, the Eucharist is also offered in reparation for the sins of the living and the dead and to obtain spiritual or temporal benefits from God.
First let me note that we are told in Psalms 49 that we cannot redeem our brother nor pay a ransom for him. Second, this is very clearly talking about a sin offering. "Offered in reparation of the sins'.
John 19:30
So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, It is finished! And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.
Hebrews 10:18
Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.
Hebrews 10:11 "11 And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins.
We are to partake in remembrance, not trying to have our sins forgiven, or to try to forgive the sins of someone else, or to try to receive benefits. It is for the purposes of remembrance and to proclaim Jesus' death.
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